Howard Greenstone is a veteran restaurateur who is no stranger to the Metro New York restaurant scene. He is a partner in Brooklyn based Pizza Loves Emily. The New Jersey native is also a partner with Chef Marcus Samuelsson in his restaurant empire and is the founder of Red Pebbles Hospitality.
Previously, Howard Greenstone led the growth of the popular Mexican restaurant group Rosa Mexicano, and was Vice President of Dry Dock Restaurants in Weehawken, NJ. The seasoned operator had also been Director of Operations for Sfuzzi restaurants in ten states.
Howard Greenstone’s latest focus has been to create and execute a vision with Emily and Matt Hyland as they look to build an East Coast, and then national, footprint for their innovative pizza and burger concept Emmy Squared.
Can you share with our readers what got you interested in this industry?
I grew up in northern New Jersey and I was a baseball player in high school and college. I needed a summer job and began as a waiter and then cooking at a local country club. I worked lots of wedding and Bar Mitzvahs. I then took those skills to college and became the Sunday Brunch cook at Ohio Wesleyan. I was a history and political science double major and thought I would be an attorney. I worked at my Dad’s law office during the day and cooked at night and the rest is history.
Talk about your career path prior to joining Hyatt?
After college I moved to Pittsburgh where my college roommate was from. I took a job in a very popular area called Station Square. It was an interesting job, because on the very first day the owner put his gun on the desk and began telling me how this was going to work. Being a Jewish kid from Teaneck, NJ, I was somewhat taken aback. As luck would have it my Dad had a friend at the Hyatt and I ended up moving back to New York as a food and beverage trainee at the Grand Hyatt New York.
What did you take away for the opportunity at Hyatt?
I really got my advanced degree in food and beverage at the Grand Hyatt. The hotel was owned by Donald J. Trump. In those days they would move you from department to department. I ran the dishwashing operation, the coffee shop, fine dining and every facet of the operation.
How did the opportunity at Aquavit come about?
I then got promoted to go to the new Greenwich, CY Hyatt and while I was there I met a Swedish chef named Christer Larsson. At the same time I became disillusioned with Hyatt because at the Grand Hyatt, you ran everything the way you wanted to. In Greenwich as with any corporate property, they wanted things done their way. So when Chef Larson asked me to come open a restaurant with him in the City, I thought it was a great opportunity. We opened Aquavit and worked for Hakan Swahn. Later on, a young chef came along named Marcus Samuelsson who would later become one of my partners.
What was your takeaway from the wonderful opportunity you had at Sfuzzi to understand the dynamics of many of the nations leading marketplaces?
I then left to with a number of Hyatt folks to join a concept named Sfuzzi. I worked for Robert and Patrick Colombo and Brian Galligan who went on to own Il Mulino. I started with them in New York and then went to California to open all of their restaurants out west. That turned into a position in Dallas as Director of Operations for what had become a 20-unit chain. All of this before I had even turned 30 which to this day is testimony to the opportunity that this industry offers.
What brought you back to New York after Sfuzzi?
Being in Dallas didn’t make sense to me so my next move was back to Jersey. I went to work for Arthur Imperatore who owned the New Jersey Devils and two miles along the Hudson River facing Manhattan in Weehawken. That turned into Arthur’s Landing and the ferryboats and for seven years, I ran their restaurant operation. My last name wasn’t Imperatore and I wasn’t going to end up in an equity position. As I went searching for an opportunity with equity, I found Rosa Mexicano.
You burst onto the scene in New York with Rosa Mexicano. How did that impact your career?
Rosa Mexicano was founded by four partners who had been together for 18 years when I joined them in 2001. They had just opened Lincoln Center when I came aboard. I was able to form a great partnership with the two surviving partners Dan Hickey and Doug Griebel. For the next 12 years, we built a solid foundation from two units to 20 restaurants. I had the experience of opening 30 plus restaurants with Sfuzzi and Hyatt. That background really gave me the keys to opening a successful restaurant. It’s really a combination of proper site selection, putting the right lease together and understanding how much capital is needed. If you don’t put the right deal together before you open the doors, and you over spend to build you simply never have a chance. So you end up with a $35 plus entree and a payroll that you simply can’t afford.
Has the real estate market and the attitudes of landlords changed?
Yes it has changed. I didn’t know if it is them or me but I have a very different take on that relationship today. In the old days, the landlord would give you a tenant improvement allowance and you would use that money to build out your restaurant. In reality, you were using their money to improve their space. Then they would take that allowance, amortize over the life of the lease and bill you back for it. The reality was they would double dip. You failed and they would end up with space that had already been amortized and capitalized. On top of that they charged you interest to do it. In today’s world I try to only do deals in which the landlord is going to pay to improve their own infrastructure. It’s more than a fair deal because we are paying for the electrical, mechanical and plumbing and they get to keep it, so their space is already enhanced. So no more tenant improvement dollars, I’m looking for landlord work to be done.
You mentioned the hunt for second-generation locations?
I think what I have figured out over time is that restaurateurs have their own method to make this work. Second generation space comes with the entire infrastructure from kitchen exhaust to plumbing and electric. That adds up to $500K to $750 even in a very small space. Most importantly, because of that infrastructure being in place, you get to sign a lease and open the restaurant very quickly. It enables you to be a settler versus a pioneer that I learned from one of the masters David Overton of Cheesecake Factory. I am in Washington, DC as we speak and we signed this lease 50 days ago and we will open tonight. We went in, didn’t move the bar, spent a little on the kitchen, painted, put in new light fixtures and here we are ready to go. In addition, none of those things required a permit.
What led to you setting up shop in Nashville?
I had been living in San Francisco to slow down. One thing led to another and a partner of mine Ken Levitan and Jonathan Waxman built a restaurant in Nashville called Adele’s. One more thing led to another and with Ken’s connections, we opened a taqueria and before you knew it, we had a bunch of restaurants. Then I began working with Matt and Emily Hyland from Emily Pizza and most of their units were on the East Coast. So moving to Nashville made a lot of sense. I didn’t want to come back to New York and it really reminds me of Connecticut before State taxes. To me it’s “Nash-Vegas”, no gambling but everything else.
What led to your involvement with Emmy Squared?
I met Matt and Emily through my partner Ken. Talk about a small world, she actually knew my brother in Ridgewood, New Jersey and had babysat for my nephews. We formed a partnership with a very simple goal: a great burger and amazing square and round pizza and that’s it. These are full service restaurants, not pizza joints. Bottom line is that my partner Matt Hyland produces delicious food. He’s from Greenwich, CT and he has a real flair for craveable munchy food. Emily is simply dynamic.
What is making Emmy Squared a success as you roll out new units?
We are building this out with 75 to 110 seat units. I learned at Rosa that there will be a day when 400 seats just doesn’t make economic sense. We are focused on building our lunch business with great salads as well. So the goal is for the customers to come in for pizza and have a burger and a salad that turns into additional weekly visits. We have also built our restaurants to take advantage of the tremendous growth in delivery. Currently we outsource with Caviar, DoorDash, Seamless, Postmate and UberEats but I suspect that there will at some point be a single company that will emerge.
Among the challenges facing today’s operator is coming to grips with compensating their staff. What are your thoughts?
You need to embrace it. Sooner or later there will be inflation in the food price market. You need to do the best you can with what you got. There’s simply no way around that. I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal and with that comes the reality that our people need to make a fair wage. You simply can’t make a living on $10.00 an hour. The art of service is shifting. I believe that you pay what the market dictates.
The other big change in your world has been the ad you may have run for Rosa Mexicano in 1999 has been replaced by a new set of social media tools.
I was always about editorial more than advertising. I am working with my dear friend Phillip Baltz who has handled PR for us for years to move us in to digital marketing space. We need to leverage the 100K followers that Matt Hyland has on Instagram to build our business. It’s very important to understand the difference between social media and digital marketing with influencers. The world has changed.
Is your strategy for Emmy Squared’s growth based on franchising and/or a public offering?
I don’t see franchise units right away. As long as landlords are willing to work with us on deal structures, we don’t need to franchise. I see us in an 18 month growth cycle and then we will look for a strategic and/or liquidity partner. I don’t see an IPO. We have an elevated quality product that I would call casual not fast casual, which makes for a harder IPO. I certainly think we could grow to 500 to 1000 units. I just met with an investment banker and he was taken aback with how I answered his question about our goals. I told him every time, we open a restaurant I want it to be a good one. I truly believe that if we stick to that everything will take care of itself.
To learn more about Howard Greenstone and his projects, visit:
Red Pebbles • Emmy Squared • MSG •
